Calling All Toyota Knowers: Help Buy a 4Runner

"RPM esq." (rpm3)
01/03/2019 at 14:35 • Filed to: car buying, toyota, 4runner

I have a hypothetical car purchase question for you Toyota Knowers. The prospective buyer is looking for a lower-mileage used 4Runner to own long term. It’ll be used as a daily driver and ski-mobile in winter and for hauling and camping (but not towing) in the summer. Some overland capability is necessary, and minor modifications are possible, but this is not going to be a serious off-road build. For all those reasons, it should be a V6 4wd with relatively low mileage.

Assuming all else is equal or close enough—price, one owner, rust free, reasonable maintenance records, desirab le color—which of the following three options would you recommend?

1. 2009 Limited, with roughly 90,000 miles.

2. 2005 Sport with X-REAS and under 50,000 miles(!!).

3. 2010 Trail Ed. with roughly 110,000 miles.

I’m thinking the sweet spot here might be the 2009. Last year of the 4th gen and a Limited so it has all the creature comforts for daily driver usage, and pretty low mileage.

The 2010 Trail is appealing but 110,000 miles isn’t particularly low for a 2010. Plus, it’s the first year of the 5th gen—any known issues there? Also, all the Trail additions like KDSS and the cargo tray seem like they might just be more stuff to break.

The 2005 Sport is remarkable for its low mileage, but that’s so low it’s almost worrisome.

So, Toyota Knowers: what do you think?

DISCUSSION (55)

E90M3 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 14:40

I think you should just get another C63 AMG.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 14:42

Does this mean you’re selling your V8?

Spaceball-Two > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 14:42

I had a 2008 Limited black over tan. Absolutely bulletproof. Went anywhere and everywhere. Even when I tried to get it stuck in snow or muck it just smiled and climbed right out and moved on. The new iteration is nice but a bit bloated in my opinion.

Arrivederci > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 14:48

I’d go for the 2010, then the 2009. I’d forget about the 2005. First-year production shouldn’t matter too much on this, did anything mechanically change? It carried over the the V6 with the addition of VVTi and may even use the same Aisin transmission. The KDSS, crawl and locking diff would be nice benefits too. I’d also prefer the part time 4WD in the Trail versus the full-time in the Limited.

RPM esq. > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
01/03/2019 at 14:54

Maybe . The immediate prompt is actually for a friend who borrowed a 4Runner to go skiing with me last weekend and is now a convert to the 4Runner life , but I added some questions that fit my needs too because I’m tempted to buy whichever he doesn’t. Interested?

RPM esq. > Spaceball-Two
01/03/2019 at 14:57

I like my 2005 a lot, although if I were doing it again I’d get a V6 and maybe a Limited (and maybe I will!). I like the looks of the post-facelift 5th gen—somehow it hides its bulk better than the pre-facelift ones—but they’re still too expensive.

vicali > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:00

Pass on the 2005 - long in the tooth now and early 4L headgaskets ftl.

2009 - nice low miles but Ltd is fancy stuff like leather right? plus 18 wheels.. no thanks. Only reason to go with the 4th Gen is the V8 otherwise why bother?

2010 Trail - I would. Y ou would n’ t need any mods to be offroad capable, and 110K vs 90K is not a problem. TE wheels are also my favourite.

RPM esq. > vicali
01/03/2019 at 15:09

I think for a daily driver, leather and heated seats are desirable, and doubly so vs. dark cloth for owners of white dogs (as both my friend who prompted this and I, more than a little tempted, are). But point well taken, thank you—the 2010 Trail is very tempting.

ToyotaFamily > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:16

I’d go with which either of the 4th gen is cleaner. They’re probably priced a bit below the 5th which should leave you a bit of $ for mods/maintenance.

vicali > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:17

I’ve never been a leather seat guy.. either I’m sliding around or stuck to them sweaty/freezing cold. I do miss the grey fabric of my old 2nd gen Taco now that I have black..

TE has crawl control and dially- terrain- knob;

Kinja'd!!!

Spaceball-Two > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:21

A buddy had the V8 and had nothing but transmission issues. Could have just been his rig in particular. I loved mine. There are days I wish I still had it.

Nothing > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:27

2010, 2009, then 2005. The 2010 has a wee bit more cargo room than the 4th gen. I really like the Trail, too, looks good and has off road goodies. Can always add leather or aftermarket heated seat covers if that’s important.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:30

I’m interested, but also have no money. Would you be willing to donate to the Paseo Foundation?

HammerheadFistpunch > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:32

2009 is a good year because you get multimode, where you can leave it in full time 4wd with the torsen center, 2wd or 4wd part time hi/lo.

X-reas is a pain though if you want to upgrade with a lift or anything and I don’t know how it actually helps on the trail. Basically you have to tear out the X-reas system if you put on a lift. I guess its not that hard since you are replacing your entire suspension anyway.

KDSS is solid and doesn’t need maintenance and adds a lot of capability, plus you get a rear locker in the TE.

Dru > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:34

FWIW the V8 in the 4th Gen is absolutely worth it. The V6 in 4th and 5th Gen is fine, but if I had my druthers I’d go V8 every time.

RPM esq. > ToyotaFamily
01/03/2019 at 15:35

They’re actually priced higher, somewhat surprisingly —lower relative mileage, plus they’re both at dealers while the 5th is a private listing.

RPM esq. > Spaceball-Two
01/03/2019 at 15:38

My V8 has been solid--sounds like your friend may have been unlucky.

ToyotaFamily > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:39

If that 5th gen is clean, it might be worth buying even with higher miles.

I’m a bit biased towards the 4th. My 07 Sport has been decent over the past year I’ve had it. One owner under 60k, dealer maintained.

RPM esq. > Dru
01/03/2019 at 15:40

I have a 4th-gen V8. It’s good but I never tow anything and think I’d prefer a V6 for daily driving and road trips.

RPM esq. > ToyotaFamily
01/03/2019 at 15:41

Yeah I think I prefer the 4th, at least over the pre-facelift 5th gen. My 2005--now at 195k-- needed some work when I bought it but since then has been great.

RPM esq. > HammerheadFistpunch
01/03/2019 at 15:47

Very helpful, thank you.

ToyotaFamily > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 15:50

I’m like 50/50 with keeping it at this point. I’ve always had sportier cars and it was kind of an impulse buy, but it’s come in handy sooo many times that getting rid of it would kind of suck.

RPM esq. > ToyotaFamily
01/03/2019 at 15:57

T hat’s why the two-car garage model is so good--no need to compromise!

ToyotaFamily > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 16:14

Problem is townhouse living. Two spots with 5 cars...

Textured Soy Protein > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 16:17

The 4th gen comes standard with the Torsen center differential for awd mode which is much better for on-road slippery weather. But the seating position is way down on the floor with your legs splayed out in front of you and looking up out over the dash. Same in the back seat. The 2009 Trail Edition adds a rear locking differential but these are rare so cost more.

The 5th gen is a much more normal seat height but to get that seat height, the step-in height is also way higher. Toyota cheaped out and only gave the Limited the Torsen center diff. All the other trims including the TRD Pro have a simple part-time 4wd system where you’re either rwd or 4wd locked, n o awd. The Limited also has these handy power running boards that I’m sure a proper rock crawler type person would bust to hell.

I really hate the seating position in the 4th gen and I’m not a proper rock crawling person, so if I were getting a 4Runner it’d be a 5th gen Limited.

WiscoProud > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 16:24

I’d go with the trail edition. 110k isn’t much for the year and certainly not for the platform. I’m not sure how old the x-reas system is, but KDSS had been around for 5-6 years at that point, albeit in the land cruiser and Lexus GX (which shares a platform with the 4runner).

That and I just find the 4th gen 4runners ugly.

M.T. Blake > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 16:43

The 2010 Trail.

RPM esq. > Textured Soy Protein
01/03/2019 at 16:53

The 4th gen seating position has never bothered me although that’s an interesting point I’ll flag for my friend. Height or torso length may be a factor . Those power running boards are neat but they make the 5th gen Limited ground clearance too low and too breakable.

Textured Soy Protein > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 17:00

I’d want the awd for a ski-mobile, and the power running boards are fine for overland/skimobile use.

MM54 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 17:39

I don’t know much about the 4th/5th gen but I very much like my ‘99

nermal > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 18:41

You’re planning to own long term? Get a newer one. Looking at 2018 models, they start at about $35k for leftover new ones $30 k for used with <2 0k miles.

Do a 96 month loan if you need to keep your payments low.

RPM esq. > nermal
01/03/2019 at 19:02

This is the worst advice I’ve ever received.

Lincini > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 19:20

Here’s my two cents, maybe worth a dime since I’ve put about a half million miles on my two 4Runners (current is a 2012 Trail w/ 175k miles purchased off lease in early 2014 with about 60k on it).

If the 2010 TE from private party has all the service records, I’d go for that one personally. When the time does come for you to sell or trade this rig I have to feel like 5th gen versus 4th is going make you some money.

If you get stuck in any of these rigs, it’s your fault.

RPM esq. > Lincini
01/03/2019 at 19:23

Good thought. Thanks!

GeorgeMan > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 19:27

If you’re not going to tell us the prices and actual conditions (miles is almost meaningless nowadays.. a 200k+ mileage vehicle could easily be much better than a 110k vehicle.. impossible to say unless we know price and actual condition.)

Yes, 4th Gens (and all 4runners, in general, are way overpriced.)

You should actually also be considering a Lexus GX as well. Only complaint people have about the GX is how the rear door opens. But it is 100% as capable off-road.. and 200% more capable on-road than any non-modified 4runner will ever be.

RPM esq. > GeorgeMan
01/03/2019 at 19:40

Assuming all else is equal or close enough—price, one owner, rust free, reasonable maintenance records, desirable color

Isn’t th e GX V8-only? We’re only looking at V6's here.

SVS55 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 20:05

Whats wrong with the V8 for daily duties and road trips? If its MPG, I think they were rated at 1mpg difference between the V6 and silky smooth V8 .

RPM esq. > SVS55
01/03/2019 at 20:46

Nothing is wrong with it. But t he cost of the MPG difference adds up over time and is more pronounced in the later ones (or so I’ve read several places, anyway ) , and for long-term ownership, the V8 is slightly more expensive to maintain (timing belt) and has one known and possibly expensive failure point (cracking exhaust manifolds). Plus, V6's are usually slightly cheaper than 4wd V8s.

Also, the V8 is a nice engine but there’s nothing magical about it. It’s a little smoother-sounding and torqu ier than my dad’s V6 Tacoma, I suppose, but not enough to outweigh the above.

N either engine would be a dealbreaker, but my friend would prefer a V6, and it has occurred to me that my V8 nets me essentially no benefit in return for the slight difference in gas mileage. My other daily gets terrible gas mileage, so it’s not like I’m looking for a massive improvement, but if I was starting from scratch the cost-benefit analysis supports the V6.

KSS1204 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 22:03

2005 in a heartbeat. I have had 4 4Runners one was a lease, I still own two, and one was 14 years old; before I traded it in for a newer model. I love each one for various reasons, but I would buy a “new” 2004 any day, over any of the models that I have owned, including my 2013, 2017 4WD SR5 and 1998 Limited.

We kayak and Jet ski, tow, and (light) off-road, and have done so with each model . 2005 would be my recommendation...and Toyota.... Toyota, needs to replicate the maneuverability of that generation ...Oh yeah, and the ease of an oil changes . Newer model oil changes is less than desirable. Hate the oil change in newer models.

Thevault301 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 22:37

I personally own a 2006 4 runner V8 sr5 with about 120,000 miles on it and it does perfect for the snowy conditions where I live not even engaded in 4Lo it has gone though a foot and a half feet of snow with out any wheelspin. The fuel millage is pretty good considering its a V8 and Full time 4WD it gets about 17 mpg without Jackrabbiting it at every green light or so. But with it being a V8 and SR5 it would cost a lot so.....

Millertime88 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 22:57

Please keep in mind that 2004-2009 Toyotas usually have an insane traction control mechanism that can kill you if you are not a skilled driver. I.e mud will lock up your breaks and stop excelleration. Some models will kill the engine completely. To turn this off is sometimes VERY VERY difficult (press the ON 2x pump the breaks, turn the wheel, promise your first born to TOYOTA). In newer models, you have a simple button to turn this off. I have ditched my 2006, 2007, and 2009 for the same reasons. The new models have a weird breaking system I’m not too keen on but I don’t hate it yet. Here in OR, sales of a 2010 that has been garaged for its lofe with 40k sells for almost $38,000. A 2018 sells for $40,000. Let that be a side note. Lexus is superior to Toyota, which it should be as it it the luxury sister brand. The GX and RX ride smoother and you barely hear or feel a thing. They turn on a dime and feel like a sports car even though its a full size suv technically. I have a 1988 and a 2018, the 88 has more girth it feels like, more growl... but the 18 has the horse power that you need for a rig now a days. The limited trim drives smoother than other trims, but if you dont like the stupid “wood grain” just take the .5% more of a bumpy ride and get a TuRD lol. Just keep in mind when dealing with Toyota, in my opinion, you have a broad range of years that are trash for certain things. Taking it to the lake with your buddies or to the old shooting range wont be a big deal for 04-09 but they dont like mud at all. I had better luck with my Prius (that thing ate mud for breakfast and loved it).

GeorgeMan > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 23:08

well, there is no valid reason to limit yourself to a V6.. when the V8s get (for all intents) the same gas mileage.. and are bullet proof engines also.

GeorgeMan > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 23:19

you keep talking about what your friend wants.. but then you keep saying what you want. all over the board. pick one! there all good. Lexus GX is a better choice if you not truly going off road much.

LNBright > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 23:21

Not all Trails have KDSS , it is an extra option. I have a 2015 Trail w/o KDSS. I might like it if I had it, but I can’t say that I’ve missed having it. We have a fleet of 4th gen at work, and while they’re fine, are what led me to look at 4Runners, I do much prefer my 5th gen. When I bought mine in 2015, I shopped one or two year old used ones, but they were holding their price so well, I was better off getting a new one... maybe by going to one more than just a couple of years old might introduce some worthwhile cost savings, it would just depend on your particular market, which may be different than mine.

Ndsamurai > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 23:21

Save you money and buy a 3rd gen. 02 limited maybe. Center lockin g diff, run forever, off road capable.

weapon0 > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 23:24

I have an ‘07 v6 Limited w/ 120k and a ‘17 TRD Pro Premium w/ 27k . The ‘07 feels more car like except for the motor, which I know makes less power but I like its low rev power band. I also love that the ‘07 rear window rolls down from the key fob and the front seat folds flat. The split level storage in t he 4th gen is better than the slide deck in the 5th . Then again, I do prefer the seat position and side bolstering in the 5th, and I think the brakes are improved too. I average 1-2 MPG better in the 4th gen and acceleration is almost identical. I think the 4th gen is an underappreciated classic so my vote is for the '09.

wcjeep > RPM esq.
01/03/2019 at 23:41

I prefer manual transfer case levers. The electronic solenoids can freeze in place from lack of use. Other manufacturers have a similar problem. 2008 and up have standard air bags. Previously an option. Rear locker is always welcome.

RPM esq. > weapon0
01/04/2019 at 02:25

Thanks, that insight is very helpful!

RPM esq. > LNBright
01/04/2019 at 02:26

Good to know, thanks!

RPM esq. > GeorgeMan
01/04/2019 at 02:28

Our needs are similar enough that they would not require separate posts to help answer , but in theory he’s the one actively shopping.

RPM esq. > Thevault301
01/04/2019 at 02:35

Yeah I have a 2005 SR5 V8 with 195k, it’s been very capable in all conditions I’ve encountered.

RPM esq. > KSS1204
01/04/2019 at 02:36

Interesting take, thanks!

Cedrick > RPM esq.
01/04/2019 at 04:02

Why do the newer 4runners cost so much? Even with high mileages. I’m wanting a brand new limited and I don’t see 54,000. I know tons of folks who have had them for years. I have a 2015 Lexus RX and this is silly to mention but my friends pick on me as all their moms have the exact same car and are in their 50's or older. “Dude! You drive a older white lady car bro. All my parents and grandparents drive the exact same car” I’ve paid attention lately and I’m the youngest and of color I’ve seen to drive one here in dallas. I decided to black it out to look not so soccer mom. I will say that when it comes to trading in my RX I can’t believe how much they are willing to give me for it with 68k Miles’s and how well it’s held its value. I have my eye on the new 4Runner limited or the Tahoe LTZ! Why is these hold value so strong as I’ve looked into pre owned and don’t see much of a difference in price. I saw a 2013 4Runner with 117k Miles for 21,995! And 2015 for $28,9995 with 68k miles. Tahoe 2013 Texas edition with 100k for 26k and 2016 with 73000 miles for 42,990! I don't understand the value in what I like but if someone could help with some input on why that would be helpful. I know these are reliable but is that all? I've also considered the Grand Cherokee limited and same deal.

adamftw > RPM esq.
01/04/2019 at 06:38

[ HOT TAKE]

Not a serious offroad build ? Get a Tahoe.

Cheaper, bigger (more comfortable ), same fuel mileage. Can tow more, haul more, etc. Same reliability. Less rust-in-half potential.

[/HOT TAKE]

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > RPM esq.
01/04/2019 at 10:24

The V8 gets the same gas mileage but is soooo smooth and one of my favorite engines of all time.